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Posted by Ava

New Video: Christmas Time in Iraq

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Christmas time in Iraq isn't Christmas at all. Violence continues and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are mourning this Christmas, and thousands of American families will be missing a loved one this holiday season.

"What is Christmas? It is tenderness for the past, courage for the present, hope for the future. It is a fervent wish that every cup may overflow with blessings rich and eternal, and that every path may lead to peace." -- Agnes M. Pharo

Posted on Wed, 19 December 2007 11:01
beth @ Wed, 19 December 2007 08:44
Bill Pitt @ Wed, 19 December 2007 09:04
Christmas Time in Iraq? Was Christmas Time in Iraq ever a big deal to the muslims? Ava read a little will ya.
Ava @ Wed, 19 December 2007 10:21
It's nice to know that if someone isn't a Christian or doesn't celebrate Christmas you don't give a damn about them Beth and Bill. Christmas is about giving, being with the ones you love, and rejoicing. And how about we follow the words of the man who was born on Christmas day, Christ himself.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

"You have heard the law that says, 'Love your neighbor' and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies!"

"Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted"

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God"

So, while Iraqis may not be spending this Christmas opening presents near the tree or waiting for Santa they still will be living in the midst of a horrible war. I'll be praying and wishing for peace and an end to this war this Christmas, because Christmas is about giving and loving.
garcia @ Wed, 19 December 2007 10:50
angry The supposed "leaders" of this country do not give a rats behind about the welfare of the countries of the middle east. They did not invade this country to help them then nor are we there to help now.Anyone there that was not in this country originally can thank us for being there. Billions have come up missing and Cheney's "Haliburton" gets richer and richer. Our troops have inferior armor, weapons and vehicles. We keep giving trillions with no accountability.Can you say "warmonger". Our invasion and occupation was to steal another country's natural resourses and to hide the stealing of money from this country. . When the Iraqis realized and wanted us to leave they instantly became "terrorists".Anyone that disagrees becomes "terrorists". Why doesn't the Iraqi people appreciate our destroying their country, killing their citizens and stealing their natural resourse. Yet, I feel that if we were invaded, we would want to rid us of the invader. We had one thing happen and there are people in this country that just wanted to kill and they did not care who. Give them a different accent, look and clothing and they were all threatened. It did not matter even if they were our citizens.
I have not seen this video yet but I appreciate this young womans' love of life and courage to speak of what is wrong.
I do not feel that demeaning her is decent. At least she is actually speaking and not finding fault with the wrong people.
garcia @ Wed, 19 December 2007 11:17
Ava: I just watched this very moving video. I always thank you. 1.2 million people, 4000 troops. Each one is a human life taken due to greed and corruption. That does not include those lives injured never to be the same.
Do the coldness of heart of some people actually realize the magnitude this represents. Do they understand the hell that these people are living due to our actions? It makes me sick inside.
Alan Charles @ Thu, 20 December 2007 07:02
To Beth and Bill, perhaps it is YOU should pay more attention.
If we have 150,000 troops in Iraq and they each have 2.2 family members,
we then have about 300,000 Americans directly involved in this war who will
NOT be home for Christmas this year.
In your attempt to demean the work Ava is doing, you missed the point of it.
Alan Charles @ Thu, 20 December 2007 07:05
In my haste to respond to Beth and Bill,
I meant to say we have about 300,000 Americans
who will not be celebrating Christmas together this year.
beth @ Thu, 20 December 2007 09:28
Ava writes "Christmas is about giving and loving".

That is the last thing it is about.

Christmas is about celebrating the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins so that we may have eternal life alongside he and his Father.

Do us a favor and come back when you have matured about 10 years; you sound too much lke all those spoiled children over at DU.
Liz @ Thu, 20 December 2007 10:00
sad Beth, As the mother of a Marine that has served three tours in this misbegotten quagmire, I can tell you that Ava is exactly right!! I note that you refer to "our" and "us" so I take it that other clueless people are with you or you suffer from multiple personality and please don't tell me that you are refering to Christians because I am one. Only zealots agree with this mess. Take heart though! Just click on the X and you and your clueless friends can skedaddle on back home or the mental ward from wince you came. Bye now...
Alan Charles @ Thu, 20 December 2007 10:25
Well said, Liz.

Sadly, there are still people who don't yet realize how they have been deceived
and may never realize it because they refuse to believe anyone but the skilled wordsmiths
who are spreading their message of hatred for anyone daring question why we are in the war in Iraq.

Perhaps Beth has just never been taught that one of the ideas behind Christmas is
that the creator of the universe gave mankind the greatest gift possible; the Son of Man
who came that we might learn the way to eternal life. Sadly, far too many Christians have
ignored what the bible actually says and have accepted the message being spun by the spinmeisters.

Will we ever change their minds? Well, all we need remember is that when He came with a message of peace,
He was killed by those unwilling to accept the messsage. Not much has changed, has it?
garcia @ Thu, 20 December 2007 10:37
Beth: Well, your Lord Jesus Christ must be livid with disgust that you would even put his name in your bigoted mouth. What a nut job.
Liz said it best. She spoke for us all.
You can always tell the religeous nut jobs. They are the ones that constantly use the name of God while sticking a knife in their neighbors back.
Those that truly follow, love and care for each other and know that what is happening is wrong.
Liz @ Fri, 21 December 2007 11:48
smileIn my haste to send Beth back to her home under her rock, I didn't say what I wanted to say. So here it is. Ava, you are a superbly talented and incredibly bright young woman! Your videos are always spot on. Keep up the good work. To Alan Charles and Garcia...thanks for the compliments...I've got your backs. I've never commented on this site before but wingnuts like Bill and Beth really steam me. It was cathartic to put Beth back into her very low place!! Peace to all!
Alan Charles @ Fri, 21 December 2007 02:50
Thanks for your kind comments, Liz.

Sadly, there are always people like Beth and Bill coming on this site to demean Ava's work.

For those still believing the 24/7 spinmeisters, I would suggest they google what Iraqis want.

They might be surprised to learn that despite all the rightwing spin, Iraqis want us out of their country.

The truly sad part is, the only people "sacrificing" are our troops in Iraq and their families back here.
garcia @ Fri, 21 December 2007 04:27
smile I too would like to thank you, Liz.
All too often, nut cases such as the two we have discussed, come onto this site with an idiotic spin. At no time does any of it make any sense. They just show the world just how programmed and ignorant they are.
Ava has such courage and insight as to the criminal aspect of who is in Washington temporarily. I admire her and thankful she is becoming voting age.
Liz @ Fri, 21 December 2007 07:11
wassatHaving raised 5 beautiful and bright children, I know one when I see one. In the future, when Ava is attacked by some mental midget, may I suggest the following replies. Sayonara...Adios...Arrivaderci...Bonjour...C
ome back when you can't stay so long...Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you...etc. With any luck, these nuts will take the hint! You can argue with them until you are blue in the face and they will vomit the same moronic ideas because they are not capable of critical thinking! Since their brains don't fire on all cylinders, a few steps are skipped from point A to point B. I'll check back later...the "inmates" are hungry.
beth @ Fri, 21 December 2007 10:23
alan charles writes "They might be surprised to learn that despite all the rightwing spin, Iraqis want us out of their country." Of course they do as do most Americans and nobody in the Conservatives disputes that. The question is....listen closely now.........WHEN, when do they want us out, when do Americans want our soldiers home.

You run around with your polls saying "see, the majority in America and Iraq want our soldiers out of Iraq, but then you conveniently leave the details of the polls WHEN. The MAJORITY of Americans and Iraquis and yes our soldiers want the soldiers out of Iraq when the mission is FINISHED!
beth @ Fri, 21 December 2007 10:31
Getting Beyond Stalemate to Win a War
By General (Ret) John Batiste
Saturday, December 8, 2007; A17
(snip) First, the United States must be successful in the fight against worldwide Islamic extremism. We have seen this ruthless enemy firsthand, and its global ambitions are undeniable. This struggle, the Long War, will probably take decades to prosecute. Failure is not an option.
Second, whether or not we like it, Iraq is central to that fight. We cannot walk away from our strategic interests in the region. Iraq cannot become a staging ground for Islamic extremism or be dominated by other powers in the region, such as Iran and Syria. A premature or precipitous withdrawal from Iraq, without the requisite stability and security, is likely to cause the violence there -- which has decreased substantially but is still present -- to cascade into an even larger humanitarian crisis.
more at:
Alan Charles @ Fri, 21 December 2007 10:43
Forgive me for leaving out the "when," Beth.

Perhaps you've never googled "when do Iraqis want us out?"
According to this Washington Post link, it is immediately.

As to General Batiste, perhaps you may want to read up on him
to see that his opinions may be a bit biased towards the Bush doctrine.

When he says "strategic interests," he means control of Iraq's oil.

You're just on the wrong site. Most of us here are against this war.
Those who are not will not be welcomed warmly for disagreeing with us.
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:05
angry Beth: One question: ARE YOU INTENDING ON ENLISTING IN THE MILITARY AND WHEN? (specific request for tour in Iraq)
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:15
Beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 09:47
Garcia: FYI but not because it is a bit of your business; I have a Marine son on his way to 29palms, California awaiting deployment to Iraq or Afganistan and a son in the United States Air Force.
beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 09:52
alan charles: Nice try; your link to me to a September 2006 poll. Nice try.

An August 2007 poll said the majority wanted us out within a YEAR and believe it or not I do not have a problem with that AS LONG AS it does not put the remaining coalition forces at risk or the Iraqis at risk. It will be interesting seeing what the polls say NOW since we are WINNING.
beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 10:00
alan charles: you need to go to the link and read all of Batist's article because just late this summer he was the FAVORITE POSTER BOY OF THE ANTI-WAR LEFT MAKING ALL THE NBC/ABC/MSNBC TALK & NEWS SHOWS SAYING WE MUST DO THE GET-OUT-NOW EXIT STRATEGY. This blog would only let me quote 2 of the 5 points he said were important about the war much less all the rest of the information in the article.
beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 10:04
OH OH. Check the news! Senate Majority Leader (DEM) Harry REID is in the middle of his 180 self penance turn. Will the left still mock the SURGE now? Of course they will. They want America to lose.


'...the surge certainly hasn't hurt. It's helped. I recognize that' --- Sen. Harry Reid, 12/21/07
sickoflies @ Sat, 22 December 2007 10:19
Clean up Washington and the fiscal mess.
We put the interests of all Americans ahead of the special interests by passing tough Congressional ethics reform, restoring ‚€œpay-as-you-go‚€Ě budgeting, and ending spending earmarks.

The 2007 Omnibus Spending Bill Busts the Budget to Pay for Pork. This omnibus bill breaks both the House & Senate 2006 pledges with more than 11000 earmarks, a record number.
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 11:30
As I have stated in the past, sometimes nut cases come onto the side with an idiotic spin. At no time does it make any sense. They just show the world how programed and ignorant they are.
Thank you Beth for re-confirming that.
Liz @ Sat, 22 December 2007 11:37
Beth,honey, please define winning. I've lived through 21 months of horror as my Marine served in Fallujah(2) and Ramadi(1). There are no winners!!! FYI, the surge only effects Baghdad. The Marines are in Al Anbar province where "The Sunni Awakening Council" has taken "control". You really need to do some research and stop quoting the media and the bible. Its getting tiresome. I have two suggestions for you. 1. Learn to think for yourself (making sure to incorporate all the steps conducive to reaching a logical conclusion). 2. There are websites where the knuckledraggers and biblethumpers hang out. Go find one. Oh! Before you leave, don't forget to define winning We are all interested in your answer.
Liz @ Sat, 22 December 2007 11:44
Beth, When you are done defining "winning", please define "the mission" and the "enemy". Oh yeah, and "FINISHED". Hurry, please as we are all waiting with bated breath to hear more of your "logic".
Beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 01:31
Liz, I will let these two esteemed gentlemen speak for me regarding wining, the enemy, and finished:
Maj. Gen. (Ret.) John Batiste commanded the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq from 2004 to early 2005. Lt. Pete Hegseth served in Iraq with the 101st Airborne Division from 2005 to 2006 and is executive director of Vets for Freedom.

I knew it would not be long before you threw the "biblethumper/knuckedragger" insults at me. Your kind always does and then (falsely) sniffs at us as the rock throwers...
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 03:06
Wow! Where to begin. I linked to a Washington Post article because you did.
I also gave you the google link which would give you other more recent stories.

So you'll know, I was a registered Republican 40 years before changing parties
in 2003 because of what I considered to be Bush's disastrous foreign policies.
I supported and voted for him in 2000 but began regretting that vote almost immediately.

I'm sure all of us here hope your son returns safe and unharmed physically,
but one of the things you won't be to do anything about will be his mental state.

As a former Green Beret who served in Vietnam in 1968, I continually tell people
that until you have picked up a weapon for the express purpose of taking a life,
you have no real idea what our soldiers anywhere have to go through.
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 03:17
In an effort to help you better understand what it is we here believe,
I would ask you to ask yourself if you would be this defensive if ANY Democrat
were president and had our troops deployed all over the middle east.
Until you can HONESTLY say yes, you are only arguing what the people you listen to
are telling you to believe. Most of us here are much more supportive of our troops
than many who run around waving the flag and putting cute little stickers on their cars.
To me, paying our troops a decent wage, supplying them needed gear to do battle, and
taking care of them once they return is "real" support, something this nation
has done very badly since George Walker Bush took office in January, 2001.
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 03:49
Perhaps a bit of review may be in order:

Osama bin Laden is the only man I am aware of who has taken credit for 9/11.

To my knowledge, it has never been proven Saddam had anything to do with it.

To my knowledge, the longest range any of Saddam's missles had was about 90 miles,
hardly enough range to deliver any WMD (if he had them) to the United States.

To my knowledge, Osama bin Laden is still roaming the world a free man.

To my knowledge, this war has cost America thousands of American and Iraq lives,
billions of American dollars, and the disrespect of a majority of people worldwide.

So, as Liz asked above, I'd like someone to define "winning" to me because
the last time I read about them, most of the 18 "benchmarks" Mr. Bush set for Iraq
had NOT been met.

In closing, a recent (09/07) poll shows 68% of Americans saying it's time
for America to get of Iraq.
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 03:53
Liz: Regarding this Beth character, was she not the one that in the beginning of this page start off by insulting a very gifted young woman by the name of Ava. Did she also make insulting references to the Muslum religion,the Iraqi people, this Chrismas video and start rambling Lord Jesus Christ stuff.
I think she may be the same short term memory individual that is now not remembering this. What do you think? Convenient lapses of memory maybe.
I had many favorites with her rambling but I think my very favorite was "We want America to lose". Lose or win what? Lose or win to whom? We started this with an invasion. To the world, we are the "terrorist".
I notice that she never answered your questions. Typical again.
I do have to say that it is always fun listening to them. They all sound the same. Do you think maybe the Bush/Cheney propaganda network (aka. Fox News) may be their guidance.
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 03:58
My bad. For those that are looking for typos. Muslim
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 04:27
Liz: One other thing about the above referenced individual, I noticed a rather off color remark cast toward us in her nonsense. She called us "Your kind". I think she may be a bigot. Just my opinion.
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 05:00
Garcia, "your kind" and "wanting America to lose sounds like Rush or Ann Coulter.
It's the way they describe those of us who disagree with their views on the war.
The Fox folks are a little more discreet in the way they try to discredit us.
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 05:23
Thanks Alan Charles. I have never listened and have not watched or listened to anything Fox based in many years. Bigots and racists are deplorable teachers but if that is what they want. Oh! Well!
garcia @ Sat, 22 December 2007 05:29
wassat wink
Alan Charles and Liz. Thanks. It is always fun to play with these people and show them for what they are but I think that this individual needs some alone time. Talk with you soon.
Liz @ Sat, 22 December 2007 06:28
OMG!! I can't believe that being laid up with a broken kneecap could be so much fun! Garcia, let's give Beth the benefit of a doubt and take her "your kind" as a compliment. I'm sure that she was referring to the 70% of U.S. citizens who disagree with her. In the future we shall refer to "our kind" as the "enlightened ones". Alan, welcome to the light!!!! My brother in law was am army medic in '68 and '69 and can barely contain his enthusiasm for war(not), especially one as unnecessary as this one. Garcia, I believe you are right about Beth being the one to sling mud at the young lady(Ava) and the muslim religion. She also displays masochistic tendencies. Beth, I am familiar with General Batiste. He has his moments of clarity but the article that you linked to wasn't one of them. Pete Hegseth is the Howdy Doody lookalike that gets his rear handed to him on a regular basis by Jon Soltz. They both spoke of winning and enemies and the long war just as you do but failed to explain what they are talking about. You can't answer my questions either because its hard to explain nonsense.Next year, we can refer to it as "The Longest War" and the year after that "The War of Infinity" etc. I'll pray for your Marine because his mission will be "don't get killed" You have a lot to learn and I hope that you and your child are up to the task. As to my knuckledragger/bible thumper comment...I call them as I see them and always will!
beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 07:19
As Congress flees Washington for the Christmas break, it is time to issue our end of year report card for the new Democratic leadership. We could be generous and give them an ‚€œIncomplete‚€Ě but an ‚€œF‚€Ě would be more accurate. ***
The Democrats in Congress, despite a year in the majority and facing a president whose approval ratings are historically low, have been spectacularly unsuccessful in achieving items both small and large on their agenda. A combination of overreaching and incompetence on their part and savvy prevent defense by President Bush and Congressional Republicans has spared the country untold grief.
beth @ Sat, 22 December 2007 07:20
So what lessons can be learned? First, the Democrats badly misinterpreted the results of the 2006 election. Had the vast majority of the country wanted amnesty, defeat in Iraq, socialized medicine and the like, the elected representatives in Congress on both sides of the aisle would have felt the heat and voted accordingly. Second, divided government may be a powerful argument for the GOP presidential nominee. If it were not for the presidential veto -- actual or threatened -- much of the Democratic agenda could well have slipped through. The GOP nominee will be greatly aided by a simple argument: ‚€œDo you want Nancy and Harry to have their way?‚€Ě Finally, Republicans do best when they do not ‚€œsplit the baby‚€Ě (e.g. give Rangel half of his tax increases) but instead say ‚€œno‚€Ě and force Democrats to vote on measures unpalatable to most voters. In that regard, 2006 may have made 2008 a far easier year -- provided Republicans stick to their guns for one more year.
Liz @ Sat, 22 December 2007 07:38
Beth, What has any of the above got to do with the price of tea in China? Fellas... we have a diagnosis on Beth. I think she is a savant. Despite her inability to process information and answer straightforward questions, she is able to recall verbatim (and ad nauseum) every wingnut op- ed and Pravda newscast that she has ever been exposed to. This is, in and of itself, a gift to us. Now we can be told what to think by Beth. Count me out though...I can still find my backside with both hands.
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 07:55
If one goes back and reads all of Beth's posts since she came to this site,
she seems to have been all over the board with her comments, avoiding questions,
coming up with stuff like the two posts above, and continuing to attack us
for our position against Mr. Bush's war. In my book, that qualifies her as a troll,
and as such, I will treat her accordingly and no longer respond to her comments.

It is obvious she did not come here for rational discussion of our differences in opinion,
but to attack us. As I said earlier, I believe all of us would hope for the safe return of her son,
but trying to respond to her inane comments is a waste of our precious time.
jim @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:05
U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007 Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" INTRODUCTION:

Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore
Liz @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:08
OORAH!!!! Beth is officially banished to the "Can't poor whiz out of a boot if the directions are on the heel"Territory!!!
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:09
Hi Jim! Would you like to explain the reason for your send, given the fact that
this particular thread is about bringing our troops back from Iraq?
Or has Beth, just suggested some good 'ol Bush-supporter jamming of the site?
jim @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:11
Global ocean temperatures "plunge"
| 12/17/07 |
The past month's (November's) global oceanic data from the National Climatic Data Center has now been released, and the Earth's oceans surface is .2548 degrees warmer than the 1880-2007 average. That's down from .5250 last year and .5597 roughly a decade ago.

There have been drops of roughly a couple tenths of a degree previously, in spite of the general warming trend. But such drops, blamed on "La Ninas," have occured immediately following temperature spikes. What makes this current La Nina unusual is that the current temperature drop follows an imperceptibly small temperature spike.

As a result, the cold snap is pulling down even the six-year running average of temperatures.
Alan Charles @ Sat, 22 December 2007 08:14
Perhaps you are not aware that Ava can read your ISP address, Jim.
You may want to keep that in mind before continuing this charade.
Liz @ Sun, 23 December 2007 12:04
Alan, NICE SHOT!!!! I linked to the page regarding trolls and came away with a better understanding of these physchos and to think that all of this time, I was picturing ugly little dolls! Being laid up has made me a wiser person and I am glad that I fractured my kneecap and not my funnybone as that would make typing a long,slow process.
Alan Charles @ Sun, 23 December 2007 01:05
Liz, on some level, I try to feel sorry for some of the people coming here
not to try to get to know us, but to parrot what they are being told to by some
very skilled wordsmiths whose aim is not to unite us as Mr. Bush said he would
if elected president, but to further divide us by convincing them that any disagreement
with Mr. Bush's war in Iraq is somehow unpatriotic and not worth paying any attention to.
Sadly, these rah-rah, support-the-troops wordsmiths never deemed it necessary to serve
our country in the military themselves.
When I read some of the comments by posters on blogs I visit fairly often,
I often post that if they represent their church or political party,
I'm glad I'm not a member of either one.

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